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Thanks. As a case in point, see section 4.11.2 of Geoffrey Horrocks’ 'Greek, A History of the Language and its Speakers', where he describes the eventual merger of ‘classical’ /oi/ with /y/, noting that οι and υ are never confused in his sample text on papyrus from 152 BC, implying that, for the speaker who composed the text, “οι”, still represented an intermediate stage in the development from [oi], namely [ø]. If one is going to make a universal prescription for what pronunciation system SHOULD be used by everyone, I fail to grasp why an exception should be made for Greeks (special pleading). I guess we used erasmaian pronunciation but we talked about maybe modern Greek language pronunciation would be better. Here is a very simple explanation of the methodology: Here is a page with some resources on the subject as well: https://www.KaineDiatheke.com/koine-pronunciation. This only works if you know Modern Pronunciation though. After all, it is easier to prevent bad habits than to break them. grave a. For the vast majority of learners, the choice of pronunciation makes no difference. The papyri routinely conflate η, οι, υ, ι, ει in all sorts of phonetic environments (not just before labials) - more so in Byzantine times. a prolonged [i] made of two parts, and stressed on its second part). If teaching Κοινή Greek as a spoken language takes off, I’ll be glad to amend my opinion. Greek is alive and well despite your eulogy (Evlogos) (indeed the Greek words that came through Latin have the Latin pronunciation…) The Erasmian argument is rather moribund though! Also, the fricative consonants β, γ, δ maintain their ancient stop realizations after nasals: e.g., λάβε [laβε] but λαμβάνω [lambano]. 5.When comparing the two Greek languages, Koine Greek was much more practical than academic. Like, have you experienced it directly? οἱ ἄνθροποι being spelled as ὑ ἄνθροπυ, I guess?). However, we are actually able to access this in many instances so that we are even aware of the dialectal diversity in ancient times as well. He asserts that the challenges in spelling that may result from the ambiguities (i.e. Now, in terms of the actual critiques of my pronunciation from the perspective of a native Greek speaker. It mat be that a number r of these reported interchanges between ἡμείς vs ὑμείς are based on subjective editorial decisions. Eph. For non-native Greek speakers learning ancient Greek, a restored Koine pronunciation is ideal (it is more similar to Modern Greek than an "academic" pronunciation so it is still like the real living language today) and it most accurately reflects the phonemic contrasts of the ancient period. Other things being equal—and they’re not—I would tend to prefer to pronounce μονογενής the way John did and δικαιοσύνη the way Paul did. So, KEP is preferred to any form of Erasmian because KEP reflects more likely at least one viable Koine era pronunciation; as such, too, it more naturally rolls off the human tongue than do the Erasmian pronunciations, which were never “living” languages used in conversation in which language speakers naturally use/change the language for communicative efficiency and effect. In short most aren’t able to do anything enjoyable with the language. An enemy hath done this. I won't be perfect in my pronunciation. Josephus wrote in a higher literary register of Greek than just about all (if not all) of the New Testament authors. I imagine he's probably correct - there must be some passages in the Epistles that are like that. In, university before I took Biblical Greek I tried to get a head start by using the Greek Tutor CD-Rom by Parsons and Dr Ted Hildebrandt. One problem I have encountered in teaching Greek has been that no matter which grammar I use or which theory of pronunciation it employs, they all describe the Greek sounds in terms of English letters/words, but my students do not all pronounce the English the same way. Modern Greek Pronunciation Learn to speak clear Greek, even you have no idea what you're saying Rating: 4.5 out of 5 4.5 (21 ratings) 441 students Created by Erato Vitali. That’s because Likewise, a student of Greek may ask “What is the proper form of the Greek word for “believe” in the present active indicative second person singular?” When the teacher replies, “πιστευετε,” will the student, in hearing that answer, know to write “πιστευετε” and not “πιστευεται” or “πhστευετε” or several other homophonic possibilities in modern Greek pronunciation? Among these are 1) Greek is a historical language and should be studied as such; 2) the sounding of the text would have produced aural impact, which was intended, and we ought to do our best to study this impact which would have contributed to mood, atmosphere, and tone. Or what if someone simply prefers the Modern Greek system for some other personal reason? In this case try watching greek movies or listening to greek radio. Unless and until someone can produce a recording of the spoken Koine Greek that dates back to the days when Koine Greek was spoken, we will never know how it was pronounced. pronunciation of this Spanish word. And once this section is completed, you will be ready to proceed to full texts. Though I am somewhat suspicious, since Brixhe tends to paint Roman Asia Minor like Modern Greek in numerous respects, even though the evidence could be interpreted otherwise. And you’ve crystallized one big reason why I have that sympathy. Gignac documents many instances of "advanced forms of iotacism" throughout the corpus of Egyptian papyri from the Ptolomaic through the Roman and Byzantine periods. Those who are and will use Grammar-Translation methods to learn or teach Greek should not bother to look further. That’s a big reason Erasmian pronunciation has stuck around since Erasmus: it has demonstrated its utility, given the church’s most common purposes for learning Greek. I thought I would address some of the points here (due to length): Thank you for the feedback and the constructive criticism. Among speakers of Modern Greek, from the Byzantine Empire to modern Greece, Cyprus, and the Greek diaspora, Greek texts from every period have always been pronounced by using the contemporaneous local Greek pronunciation.That makes it easy to recognize the many words that have remained the same or similar in written form from one period to another. “Erasmian punctuation makes it easier for English speakers, at least, to learn the language”. The first evidence we have of υ switching pronunciation to /i/ (in mainstream Greek) is as late as 1030 AD. 5:9 ὅτι οὐκ ἔθετο ἡμᾶς ὁ θεὸς εἰς ὀργὴν ἀλλ᾿ εἰς περιποίησιν σωτηρίας διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. One commentator actually quoted the article with: “Erasmian punctuation makes it easier for…” etc. You need to know there’s disagreement, and you need to have a basic grasp of why that is. For my compatriots willingly acknowledge that I far exceed them in Jewish learning. I think that speech and text and text and speech go together when teaching. So, although we cannot be confident that we are exactly speaking like Paul might have beeeen, at least we are much closer than using Erasmian. This is usually selected for its pedagogical value, not for historical purposes. Let me divide these into three categories: (1) differences based on diachrony, (2) differences based on influence of my linguistic background, and (3) prosodic differences (i.e., inflection, rhythm, etc). @timplanche Thanks for the input. Not sure this is true. For that reason, I would recommend that a native speaker continue to interact with the scriptures in their native pronunciation. Who cares how it was pronounced at that time as long as we can interpret the written word today? But with grammatical context, the proper spelling will normally be made clear. Knowing modern English doesn’t help me pronounce old English very well. She is a native Greek speaker and speaks fluently English and French. The new word for “you” is first attested in the 4th/5th century AD, with an eta (Horrocks, History of Greek, 2nd ed, p, 186). He notably conflates "Classical Pronunciation" with "Erasmian", which is a little annoying. Anyone who has studied a number of regional varieties of Koine Greek, with respect to pronunciation, realizes quite quickly that there are essentially two main factors in the different pronunciations of Koine around the Mediterranean: (i) the rate/time at which certain universal changes take place and (ii) the impact of the local languages on the pronunciation. I accept that some regional dialects merged these earlier than the universal Late Byzantine date. This is all really stupid. To say Koine is dead is as of the mark as saying the English of Shakespear or King James is dead. But there are natural limits to the confidence we can have in the way we’re pronouncing Κοινή. 2.Koine Greek was developed from the Attic dialect. Greek Accents Three different accents appear in the Greek New Testament: , a cute a, -- . We have relatively few tools to look at this in detail. Can you pronounce words that contain vowel combinations? For this reason, a modern pronunciation will not work. 1. While Koine Greek is considered to be the language of life, modern Greek can be termed as the language of the books. How to prevent students getting frustrated—a serious concern. But though we can’t know precisely how individual New Testament authors—and the church members who first read their Gospels and letters—pronounced Κοινή words, it seems we can know that the modern Greek option is just as wrong as Erasmian (see Horrocks ). Learn to speak clear Greek, even you have no idea what you're saying, Pronounce the Greek vowels and consonants correctly. Let me just say that first. This is a valid argument. So, it seems like the spelling errors documented in Horrocks were actually quite common in Egypt. FYI, in my Greek textbook I provide English words as well as these simplifications like “eh”–but “eh” alone would not be sufficient. Though IMO this was mainly in the Byzantine era. You will be able to provide some answers to the question, “How did English speakers of the 21st century pronounce their O’s and their R’s?” But you may miss out completely on the vocal fry of the Valley girls, the finely articulated drawl of the Charlestonians, and any other kind of dialectical (or idiolectical!)

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